July 7th, 2008 Chat Session

IRC Chat on Freenode.net/#pacslinux

(07:38:04 PM) InHisName [n=rich@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] entered the room.

(07:38:25 PM) InHisName: Hi Randy

(07:39:08 PM) rmg: evening

(07:39:30 PM) InHisName: I got here early for once.

(07:40:09 PM) rmg: now we play hurry up and wait

(07:43:01 PM) InHisName: Daddy are we there yet? Huh, are we, are we , pluuuuleeese ?

(07:43:25 PM) InHisName: Like that, rmg51 ?

(07:43:55 PM) rmg: not quite

(07:44:14 PM) rmg: hurry up and wait for others to sign in

(07:48:24 PM) InHisName: Pluuuuulllleeeezze! sombody hurry up and sign in!!!

(07:48:36 PM) InHisName: Hurry and sign in quick.

(07:51:50 PM) teddy-dbear [n=teddy-db@c-71-230-172-98.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] entered the room.

(07:58:58 PM) yoda_van [n=jedijf@unaffiliated/jedijf] entered the room.

(08:19:26 PM) InHisName: Well, yoda_van has dropped in now. Where's norm, Russ, etc ?

(08:24:33 PM) Ronn [n=chatzill@c-71-58-183-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] entered the room.

rmg rmg51 Ronn

(08:25:49 PM) rmg: evening Ronn

(08:26:11 PM) Ronn: hey there. i does work

(08:26:37 PM) rmg: i does too :-D

(08:27:15 PM) Ronn: I had to do a reload last week of XP and all my apps

(08:27:41 PM) rmg: sounds like fun

(08:28:10 PM) rmg: but we don't care about Windows in here :P

(08:28:21 PM) Ronn: it was. It actually took less time than I expected since I used an unattended install

(08:28:47 PM) Ronn: i'm taking a SUSE Linux class starting on the 24th

(08:28:59 PM) rmg: I saw your email

(08:29:16 PM) Ronn: I ordered the book and lab simulator today

(08:29:51 PM) rmg: just install it and play with it

(08:30:12 PM) Ronn: hopefully I'll underatand it all.

(08:30:45 PM) Ronn: They always say its harder for a windows user to learn linux than a linux user to understand windows

(08:30:54 PM) rmg: you can tell us all about it on the 19th

(08:31:14 PM) Ronn: will do

(08:31:29 PM) rmg: Ubuntu is fairly easy to use

(08:31:59 PM) rmg: it's only hard if you don't know command line

(08:33:01 PM) rmg: that is the one thing I still have to get around to learning

(08:33:48 PM) yoda_van: makes life alot easier

(08:34:09 PM) Ronn: i do remember to old days with dos

(08:34:30 PM) yoda_van: better than all that gui crap

(08:34:38 PM) yoda_van: the old days

(08:34:40 PM) yoda_van: heh

(08:35:14 PM) Ronn: my first computer class was an elective in 1981 and Lincoln High School

(08:35:25 PM) rmg: I prefer the gui

(08:35:32 PM) yoda_van: lincoln railsplitters

(08:35:54 PM) Ronn: that's them

(08:39:11 PM) yoda_van: suse linux - sounds gay

(08:39:24 PM) yoda_van: just kidding

(08:39:42 PM) yoda_van: i have suse 9.something developer edition

(08:40:12 PM) Ronn: That's the version that the class is based around and the certification as well

(08:40:45 PM) InHisName: hello Ronn and yoda_van

(08:41:10 PM) Ronn: not my first choice but it gets me TO UNDERSTAND LINUX

(08:41:28 PM) Ronn: HELLo IHN

(08:42:43 PM) rmg: install Ubuntu and play with it

(08:42:44 PM) Ronn: any word from the PACS Board about SFD

(08:43:00 PM) rmg: not to me

(08:43:49 PM) Ronn: In September I hope to put together a demo and power point presentation based around Firefox 3

(08:44:02 PM) Ronn: at the computer repair SIG

(08:44:55 PM) rmg: we still need to talk about what we what to do for sfd

(08:52:00 PM) InHisName: excuse me while I reboot my vbox host and try to get networking to improve.

(08:52:05 PM) InHisName left the room.

(09:04:50 PM) yoda_van: i emailed them - no response

(09:05:21 PM) rmg: summer break

(09:10:45 PM) InHisName [n=rich@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] entered the room.

(09:11:10 PM) InHisName: I'm back

(09:14:23 PM) rmg: didn't miss anything

(09:15:00 PM) rmg: just me play with my 4 desktops in Windows

(09:16:35 PM) InHisName: virtual desktops ?

(09:17:17 PM) rmg: yep

(09:17:37 PM) rmg: Microsoft PowerToy

(09:17:54 PM) rmg: Virtual Desktop Manager

(09:18:24 PM) rmg: got used to using more then one desktop in Ubuntu

(09:18:28 PM) InHisName: Oh the 4 n one desktops, like the cube has 4 desktops ?

(09:18:46 PM) rmg: now I have 4 desktops in Windows

(09:19:06 PM) rmg: Windows doesn't have a cube

(09:19:32 PM) InHisName: No, windows just shows a 2x2 list of choice to click on.

(09:20:15 PM) rmg: it does Linux one better

(09:20:25 PM) InHisName: huh?

(09:21:01 PM) rmg: you can have separate wallpaper for each desktop

(09:21:25 PM) InHisName: Yea, I did that. Knoppix did that too.

(09:22:00 PM) rmg: Ubuntu can only display one wallpaper

(09:22:06 PM) InHisName: Knoppix let you go to 8 or maybe even 16 desktops.

(09:22:08 PM) kb3ui [n=kb3ui@h-72-244-71-114.phlapafg.dynamic.covad.net] entered the room.

(09:22:32 PM) kb3ui: Good evening friends, especially Ronn!

(09:22:43 PM) InHisName: Hi Russ

(09:22:47 PM) rmg: Ubuntu goes to 16

(09:22:57 PM) Ronn: hey russ

(09:23:01 PM) kb3ui: and Jim Fisher!

(09:24:16 PM) InHisName: All we need is to add norm and rich#### and maybe chris

(09:24:40 PM) InHisName: The we would have full house of old regulars.

(09:25:03 PM) kb3ui: That's ok - it's good to get a different group of people once in a while!

(09:25:29 PM) kb3ui: With the rest of PACS in hiatus, perhaps we'll be hearing from others.

(09:26:07 PM) Ronn: Maybe PACS will meet next summer. If I was Prez I would set it up.

(09:26:50 PM) kb3ui: According to the current Prez, that's the general idea. He didn't want to go full blast before a kick-off meeting in the new meeting place in September.

(09:27:28 PM) kb3ui: One big advantage of the new meeting place is that we could meet year-around, if the members so wish.

(09:27:31 PM) Ronn: when to better test it out then during the summer

(09:27:48 PM) kb3ui: We're planning on a warm-up meeting in August.

(09:28:07 PM) Ronn: My SIG is meeting on July 19th.

(09:28:27 PM) kb3ui: Just this SIG and ... oh yes, your SIG, Ronn. Are you also planning on August, or are you going to take it off?

(09:29:20 PM) Ronn: I'm taking August off. I want to put together an A+ presentation for my SIG in September on FF 3

(09:29:31 PM) rmg: no one wants to meet in July?

(09:29:43 PM) kb3ui: Ronn - one request - please have at least someone in your SIG test out the wireless LAN Internet access at your July meeting, so we'll know what we're be up against in August.

(09:30:02 PM) rmg: I'll be there

(09:30:14 PM) Ronn: I'll be testing it out since I always need Internet access.

(09:30:48 PM) kb3ui: Good to know - if there's a problem, your SIG is the appropriate one to be the first to try to resolve it anyway!

(09:31:01 PM) InHisName: I'll probably be able to make it in Aug (3rd sat)\

(09:31:26 PM) kb3ui: Rich can't make it in July, and he's the SIG leader.

(09:31:35 PM) rmg: so?

(09:31:53 PM) kb3ui: SInce we can meet online here, it's less urgent that we meet in person in July, I think.

(09:32:11 PM) InHisName: pretty much

(09:32:36 PM) rmg: follow that logic, we don't have to have a face to face at all

(09:33:32 PM) kb3ui: I just said it was *less* urgent, not that face to face meetings have no value. And, I don't feel strongly about this - if the others want to meet, I'd try to make an appearance.

(09:34:00 PM) rmg: there are no others to ask

(09:34:20 PM) kb3ui: I'm working on getting Puppy Linux installed on a Virtual Box virtual drive - my goal is to get it working by the August meeting, so I can try out the wireless LAN with it.

(09:35:14 PM) kb3ui: So far, I can install Puppy Linux 3.01 on it, boot it, but then it won't respond to any commands once it's up and running, including shutting itself down.

(09:36:30 PM) kb3ui: The idea with Virtual Box is to install it on a Windows computer, so one can use the Windows peripherals such as wireless LAN, Ethernet, USB, etc. that's available on the Windows machine without having to use any special Linux drivers for them - Virtual Box acts as a "virtual computer' that interfaces with the Windows computer.

(09:37:40 PM) kb3ui: So far, I've got it running live - that is, when booted from a Puppy Linux CD-ROM, but I want to install it on a virtual drive so that we can distribute it to newcomers and get them running on Linux the easiest way.

(09:37:43 PM) yoda_van: hmmm

(09:38:14 PM) Ronn: time for me to go. I'm studying for my net + cert, Night all

(09:38:21 PM) Ronn left the room (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]").

(09:38:31 PM) kb3ui: Puppy Linux is a version that only needs 32 Meg RAM to run, so it's ideal for this purpose, but with a larger RAM, could run Ubuntu as well.

(09:38:45 PM) yoda_van: wubi

(09:39:07 PM) kb3ui: Some of you may recall my Think Pad with only 192 Meg RAM - that's what I'm trying it on.

(09:39:26 PM) kb3ui: I can hear Jim thinking, which may be a dangerous thing! :)

(09:39:28 PM) yoda_van: that's what i use every day in the van

(09:39:33 PM) yoda_van: 600e

(09:39:41 PM) kb3ui: How much RAM?

(09:39:48 PM) yoda_van: 192

(09:40:11 PM) yoda_van: i am installing ubuntu as we speak

(09:40:23 PM) kb3ui: Jim, I probably want to make you a tester when it's running. What OS is native?

(09:40:31 PM) yoda_van: ubuntu

(09:40:46 PM) yoda_van: only in 10 minutes

(09:40:58 PM) kb3ui: Does Ubuntu run with such little RAM? I couldn't get it to run on my 600X.

(09:41:15 PM) kb3ui: Ubuntu run live ?

(09:41:16 PM) yoda_van: ubuntu will run on 32megs

(09:41:22 PM) yoda_van: ubuntu-lite

(09:41:34 PM) yoda_van: reg ubu requires 64 megs

(09:41:49 PM) kb3ui: Really? I thought it required 256 Megs. Is this new with Ubunutu?

(09:41:57 PM) yoda_van: live cd requires 256

(09:42:05 PM) yoda_van: not new - its been like that forever

(09:42:22 PM) kb3ui: That's what I remember. Live I guess needs more RAM, of course.

(09:42:54 PM) kb3ui: Jim, I'm trying to reach the newbie who isn't ready to install Linux on the hard drive. You, of course, are kilometers ahead of that.

(09:43:00 PM) yoda_van: then there is dsl - puupy for grownups

(09:43:21 PM) yoda_van: wubi is the best approach though

(09:43:41 PM) kb3ui: According to Ben Agee, DSL has a lot less than Puppy in terms of programs that run on it.

(09:43:44 PM) yoda_van: it installs a loopback filesystem that they can remove from windows with add/remove

(09:43:52 PM) yoda_van: ben is wrong

(09:44:05 PM) yoda_van: if you install dsl it is a regular debian install

(09:44:14 PM) yoda_van: can get all the apps that ubu can

(09:44:15 PM) kb3ui: Wubi? I see! That's new to me - please give me a reference.

(09:44:45 PM) yoda_van: http://wubi-installer.org/

(09:45:47 PM) rmg: or just pop in a live cd in Windows and check out the second offering

(09:45:54 PM) InHisName: will wubi load into my virtualized XP ? Will it play nicely ?

(09:46:20 PM) kb3ui: I'll check it out. I don't own any stock in Puppy Linux. How can DSL run the Debian applications if they need more RAM than the Puppy applications?

(09:46:52 PM) yoda_van: dsl installed to hard drive is a debian system

(09:48:03 PM) yoda_van: if you dont have the ram, you are limited, but there is as much or more specialized software made specifically for dsl also

(09:48:19 PM) InHisName: Of course some apps might need more resources than what was given to Puppy to run with. Ditto for DSL.

(09:48:36 PM) yoda_van: as in the frugal install, which is basically a bootable live cd with persistent memory

(09:49:00 PM) kb3ui: I see - of course. If Ubuntu installed only requires 32 Meg, then it should work, as it's Debian. I tried running Ubuntu with Virtual Box using 73 Meg virtual RAM, but found that it kept thrashing virtual RAM, and had to give it up. But I didn't try installing Ubuntu, which only needs 32 Meg, just like Puppy. Might be worth trying that way.

(09:49:22 PM) yoda_van: dsl

(09:49:39 PM) yoda_van: try a 3 branch, not the 4. branch

(09:50:03 PM) kb3ui: Just as important, Ubuntu is the official flavor of the Linux SIG. Wait, didn't you say that Ubuntu installed would need only 32 Meg RAM? Why do I still need DSL then?

(09:50:13 PM) yoda_van: 64 megs

(09:50:19 PM) yoda_van: alternate install

(09:50:25 PM) yoda_van: ubuntu lite is 32 megs

(09:50:49 PM) kb3ui: 64 Megs alternate install Ubuntu. Should be worth a try.

(09:50:59 PM) rmg: just don't think you can use the live cd to install

(09:51:28 PM) kb3ui: Especially since you've gotten it to work installed. What should I use for Ubuntu to install it in Virtual Box, then?

(09:52:12 PM) yoda_van: alternate`install cd

(09:53:16 PM) kb3ui: What version of Ubuntu?

(09:53:41 PM) yoda_van: if you are only going to allocate 64 megs xubuntu

(09:53:58 PM) yoda_van: lighter desktop

(09:54:11 PM) kb3ui: What version number of Xubuntu? Latest?

(09:54:34 PM) yoda_van: or use alternate install cli system and add desktop like flux or enlightenment

(09:54:43 PM) yoda_van: 8.04

(09:54:54 PM) kb3ui: Enlightenment - I have that from my Linux server.

(09:55:37 PM) kb3ui: But I want to try something that will be the most use for our SIG to introduce newbies. Virtual Box is supposed to be very efficient as an emulator.

(09:55:52 PM) yoda_van: wubi

(09:56:33 PM) kb3ui: Jim, are you saying that wubi is better than Xubuntu Vers 8.04? Why?

(09:57:52 PM) yoda_van: dude , they use windows - all they have to do is while in windows put in hardy cd and install wubi - the next time they boot will be like a dual boot - choose windows or ubuntu easy done - read the link

(09:58:01 PM) yoda_van: http://wubi-installer.org/

(09:58:34 PM) kb3ui: So you don't need Virtual Box. I see! Ok, I'll take a look at the link.

(09:59:15 PM) InHisName: less complicated. Like live-cd.

(09:59:15 PM) yoda_van: virtual box is just another layer to confuse and aggravate newcomers

(09:59:34 PM) yoda_van: installed persistent

(09:59:58 PM) kb3ui: That's the idea. Bringing up the web site right now. I see - it is an Ubuntu installer, rather than an alternative to Ubuntu.

(10:01:01 PM) kb3ui: No good for me - Wubi requires 256 Meg RAM. Only have 192.

(10:01:19 PM) InHisName: hmmmmm

(10:01:23 PM) kb3ui: At least on my Thinkpad. Could try it though on my Dell with 512 Meg RAM.

(10:01:52 PM) InHisName: Have you tried DOS 3.1 ? It should fit into 192 easy.

(10:02:20 PM) rmg: remember, most people who come to our sig run XP

(10:02:32 PM) rmg: they need 512 to run XP

(10:03:13 PM) kb3ui: Also, if with Virtual Box, for example, I can get wireless LAN to work seemlessly. If you boot Ubuntu natively, you have driver problems with that and other peripherals. Wubi requires Windows 98, not DOS 3.1, as a minimum.'

(10:03:15 PM) rmg: for them running live or wubi won't be a problem

(10:03:38 PM) InHisName: I thought I installed XP to system with only 128Meg in it once.

(10:04:34 PM) InHisName: It ran, or really crawled slowly. I added 2 more sticks of mem to boost to 384Mb

(10:04:38 PM) kb3ui: Another advantage of Virtual Box is that we can provide newbies with a controlled environment that is standardized. So we don't have to worry about different hardwares. As long as Virtual Box runs, which it should.

(10:06:24 PM) kb3ui: Jim's right that it's another layer of complication, which is simple to install, but once you have it, we can supply our environment, which everyone would run the same - same virtual RAM, same network "card", same everything.

(10:08:25 PM) rmg: but now you have newbies running a distro that most of the rest of use don't use

(10:08:31 PM) kb3ui: Similar to if we gave everyone visiting our SIG the same free computer that ran Linux, and tried to train them on them.

(10:08:46 PM) kb3ui: Xubuntu - is it that different from the other flavors of Ubuntu?

(10:09:17 PM) yoda_van: different window manager

(10:09:27 PM) yoda_van: i think you're trying to hard

(10:09:44 PM) yoda_van: let them know they have all these options and they can choose what suits them'

(10:09:58 PM) kb3ui: I hear you - would it be better to try regular Ubuntu. How much RAM would it require installed?

(10:10:35 PM) yoda_van: going with puppy or dsl isn't always the best - they are enigmas - customized too much to work in limited ram situations - neat - but not 'normal'

(10:11:02 PM) kb3ui: I agree with you - I didn't know that Ubuntu would run with such little RAM when installed.

(10:11:07 PM) rmg: go back to what I said before

(10:11:18 PM) kb3ui: Puppy Linux is non-standard. Debian is standard.

(10:11:27 PM) kb3ui: Rather have something that would run Debian.

(10:11:34 PM) rmg: if most are running XP they have enough ram

(10:12:06 PM) yoda_van: fluxbuntu - xubuntu - command line with light desktop of choice

(10:12:36 PM) yoda_van: the alternate cd that i am currnetly using gives you the option to install a command line system then you can add whatever you like

(10:13:22 PM) kb3ui: Sounds good. If it works, we can try to improve upon things as time goes on.

(10:13:59 PM) kb3ui: If it works with little RAM, it will also work with a lot of RAM, so the XP people should still be able to use it.

(10:14:17 PM) yoda_van: most have more than enough hardware - that's not the issue - the issue is committing to the learning curve

(10:15:03 PM) kb3ui: learning curve on standardized architecture, and one that will be easy to support, no matter what computer the user has.

(10:15:24 PM) kb3ui: I'll give it a try and report back.

(10:15:58 PM) kb3ui: Another advantage of Virtual Box when running on XP is that you can run Linux and Windows on the same computer at the same time.

(10:16:17 PM) yoda_van: that's the only advantage

(10:16:18 PM) kb3ui: Not very practical with 192 Meg, but yes for the bigger machines.

(10:16:50 PM) kb3ui: WIreless LAN, also - I've heard many have had problems under Linux natively.

(10:17:20 PM) kb3ui: WIth Virtual Box, if your WIndows machine accesses the Internet, so does your virtual Linux.

(10:17:26 PM) kb3ui: Printers - no problem.

(10:17:57 PM) kb3ui: Architecture defined in XML.

(10:19:19 PM) kb3ui: Guess the best way to get Xubuntu is to download it - don't think it's on the CD-ROMs we give out, is it?

(10:20:26 PM) kb3ui: Randy, I remember your making me a Xubuntu CD, but it's outdated. I should now have the facilities to make my own, now, though.'

(10:21:27 PM) kb3ui: yoda_van - you know that PACS is moving to a new meeting place?

(10:21:45 PM) yoda_van: giant yep

(10:22:41 PM) kb3ui: That should be even closer to you than Upper Moreland Middle School was. However, I'm worried that you might not enjoy going through a supermarket to get to it :)

(10:22:58 PM) yoda_van: np

(10:23:15 PM) yoda_van: gone through worse to get to worse

(10:23:25 PM) kb3ui: Jim, you might want to get friendly with the Giant Supermarket manager, and see if he/she would be interested in your product line.

(10:23:36 PM) yoda_van: i don't like retail

(10:23:44 PM) kb3ui: It's an upscale Giant. Wonder if it would fit in?

(10:23:58 PM) yoda_van: prefer and primarily only service restaurants/institutions

(10:24:07 PM) kb3ui: You don't sell retail, but don't you sell to supermarkets?

(10:24:18 PM) kb3ui: Wegmans?

(10:24:19 PM) yoda_van: only do high volume stuff - costco -bj's

(10:24:22 PM) yoda_van: wegamns

(10:24:30 PM) yoda_van: wegmans

(10:24:34 PM) yoda_van: specialty

(10:24:53 PM) kb3ui: This is a *really* big Giant. About the size of Wegmans, and upscale. A direct competitor, I'd think.

(10:25:00 PM) yoda_van: general supermarkets are more for the standard white bread companies - too time consuming and low volume

(10:25:35 PM) kb3ui: I don't think this is a general supermarket, even though it bears the Giant name. You'll make your own opinion when you see it, if you haven't already.

(10:25:44 PM) yoda_van: i do wegmans because it is only upscale and helps with brand recognition

(10:25:45 PM) yoda_van: i have

(10:25:54 PM) yoda_van: supermarkets are too low volume

(10:26:15 PM) kb3ui: Interesting to learn from you, Jim.

(10:26:32 PM) yoda_van: i serve a niche market

(10:26:54 PM) kb3ui: I thought, so did this particular Giant - that was the purpose of it.

(10:27:09 PM) yoda_van: not my client type

(10:27:22 PM) yoda_van: i don't do retail for all intents and purposes

(10:27:46 PM) kb3ui: Whatever you're doing, you're doing right!

(10:27:55 PM) yoda_van: maybe .3% of my business

(10:28:43 PM) kb3ui: All I hope is that you'll find some more time to spend with us!

(10:31:00 PM) yoda_van: soon - new guy starting thurs - seems good

(10:31:59 PM) kb3ui: That's what you need most - some help to take some pressure off you. But it takes time to get a new guy up to speed.

(10:32:49 PM) yoda_van: couple weeks

(10:33:49 PM) kb3ui: Summer a busy time for you?

(10:33:59 PM) yoda_van: every season is busy

(10:34:11 PM) yoda_van: summer is re-bid time for the coming school year

(10:34:29 PM) yoda_van: seasonal seashore business gets crazy

(10:34:48 PM) yoda_van: and then right into the new school year and all those stops

(10:35:05 PM) kb3ui: That's right - you said you also have South Jersey. And the vacationers must have their bread. Gas prices affecting you a lot?

(10:35:49 PM) yoda_van: of course, but the average route serves 40 stops a day so its spread out

(10:36:17 PM) kb3ui: Like UPS, you need to plan your routes as efficiently as possible.

(10:36:31 PM) kb3ui: Minimize left turns, for example.

(10:37:36 PM) yoda_van: gas doubled - so 240 become 480 but the 240 increase is only $1.00 per stop so its not that bad - prices have gone up to reflect that

(10:38:04 PM) kb3ui: That's good - you've been able to pass on the increase.

(10:38:20 PM) yoda_van: it's all incorporated

(10:38:54 PM) kb3ui: With a niche market, you don't have to compete so much on price with other breads, I would guess.

(10:39:06 PM) yoda_van: highest priced bread on the market

(10:39:18 PM) kb3ui: But worth it!

(10:39:20 PM) yoda_van: i sell service - everyone has bread

(10:40:11 PM) kb3ui: Bread, even if premium, isn't as expensive as, say, meat.

(10:44:45 PM) kb3ui: Guess it's time to make the doughnuts!

(10:48:53 PM) kb3ui: If I don't see you guys here next Monday, I should be here for the following Monday.

(10:49:55 PM) yoda_van: see ya

(10:49:58 PM) yoda_van left the room ("Time to make the donuts.").

(10:50:11 PM) kb3ui: Goodnight!

(10:50:20 PM) kb3ui left the room (quit: ""Goodnight"").

(10:51:46 PM) InHisName: all but the bear family is gone now.

(10:54:06 PM) teddy-dbear: and I no longer have any reason to stay

(10:54:40 PM) teddy-dbear: but then again I never had any reason to be here in the first place

(10:55:08 PM) rmg: time for me to call it a night

(10:57:19 PM) teddy-dbear: nite nite

(10:58:04 PM) teddy-dbear left the room (quit: "Leaving.").

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